Late cancellations

I paid a model recently because I changed my mind about travelling 4 hours. So I felt it was my duty but I never ever been offered to be paid by a model no matter if they cancel or fail turn to up. I can't believe a model is any poorer or richer than lots of photographers so I just accept its unfair and unjust. Why don't model pay when they cancel?? You tell me

Edited by Spartacusimages

Problem is the system is set up for the models to hold all the cards.

The one with anxiety I've worked with twice before, we have a great relationship. So I'm confident I've not done anything.

I've had pros pull the same trick though. One rang me, an hour before call time, to say she was on her period and couldn't shoot some stuff. OK, fine. Then she sent a series of texts trying to find a way out. So I called her, offered ways around the issue (I grew up with two teenage sisters so I do get it) and it was obvious she wanted an out.

She then text me later having a go at me for being pushy. A few days later I apologised and she apologised back, understanding that I was trying to salvage the day but she's avoided shooting with me for several months.

Seriously regret not DNSing her otherwise clean sheet.

Oh look one of them has posted on their Insta that they're hungover.

Bit of a fatal mistake really.

Huw said

CalmNudes said

JamesMt142 said

And this, gentlemen (and any ladies or those undecided I may have missed), is why I don't take deposits. Models are, in my experience, just too unreliable. I long for the day one comes along and she feeds me an entire humble pie with chips and gravy on the side and proves me completely wrong 

I have just passed the 100-reference mark, since some models don't leave references, I reckon I've booked 120 or so shoots via PP. 

Total no shows ... 1 which was 8 or 9 years ago. Late cancellations 0.  Models I'd advise others to avoid 0. Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to... a very small handful. 

If a photographer finds models don't show up, they might ask what's the common factor. 
Conversely if a model has a track record of hundreds of consecutive positive refences, (a) her reliably is better proven than yours (b) she's probably encountered enough flaky photographers that either she's either put her hourly rate up by £5 or £10 per hour so the "shows" cover the "no shows", or charges a deposit.

Looking at your port (yeah you've blocked me, but I can see if not logged in) you don't seem to shoot with full time professionals much. You might ask if amateurs and part timers doing it for a few quid they don't declare to the tax man are more likely or less likely to turn up than the models making their living at it. And also whether the attitude you demonstrate to models with your "hope" that one proves reliable deters better model from working with you.

It is almost axiomatic how successful a model is is matched by her ability to set commercial terms without losing a ton of work. A photographer who insists on setting their own terms rules out a lot of successful models, and makes their selection from a pool with a greater proportion of flakes.  

Yep.

40 years, two "no shows".

Two dead parents. 
One genuine, one a lie (Facebook helps sort those out).

If one gets more than a handful of no shows, one is doing something wrong.
Either picking poorly, or putting them off in the messaging.

Late cancellations / no shows are one of those photographic forum hardy perennials that keep cropping up, year after year. Yet there is one significant factor that is very seldom mentioned: menstruation.

Oddly, this is a subject about which we Brits still seem to be particularly squeamish, and reluctant to discuss openly. Our attitude to the subject here in the UK certainly seems very different from that of Continental Europe. Personally, I think it's weird that a perfectly normal part of being a healthy young woman is regarded here as being something dirty and disgusting, and certainly something we don't discuss in public.

In any event, I would wager it is unforeseen irregularities in the menstrual cycle, and our unwillingness to discuss them openly, more than any other single factor, that is the real root of many late cancellations and no shows.

Well it's that and Guardian fanboys moaning about the Tories and Brexit in the Politics forum.😂

In this case though, the model (who would be described as a "pro" by those who think I make bad hires) was clearly using menstruational issues as an avenue for an "out", clearly thinking that such an excuse wouldn't get her a DNS, and at the time I bought it.

As I said back on Page 1: If you've had this happen several times, then I might politely suggest you be more careful about your choice of models?

waist.it No, it's clearly the Remoaner's fault...

Huw said

waist.it No, it's clearly the Remoaner's fault...

Lol. Yes of course. Silly me. 🙂

CalmNudes said

Total no shows ... 1 which was 8 or 9 years ago. Late cancellations 0.  Models I'd advise others to avoid 0. Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to... a very small handful. 

About 900 shoots in 15 years. 

Total no-shows - 1.

I got fed up with waiting for the model to arrive and I went home (model apparently eventually showed up, but too long after the agreed shoot time) - 2.

Late-ish cancellations - a few.

Models I'd advise others to avoid - can't think of any real duffers.

Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to - a very small handful.

Models who turned up on time and were brilliant to work with - hundreds.   

Edited by Orson Carter

Orson Carter said

CalmNudes said

Total no shows ... 1 which was 8 or 9 years ago. Late cancellations 0.  Models I'd advise others to avoid 0. Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to... a very small handful. 

About 900 shoots in 15 years. 

Total no-shows - 1.

I got fed up with waiting for the model to arrive and I went home (model apparently eventually showed up, but too long after the agreed shoot time) - 2.

Late-ish cancellations - a few.

Models I'd advise others to avoid - can't think of any real duffers.

Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to - a very small handful.

Models who turned up on time and were brilliant to work with - hundreds.   

 

  

Edited by Orson Carter

Seeing that and Huw 's comment,  it's almost as if people who seek out professional models, expect them to be professional and treat them like professionals get one kind of model, and people who think they are silly girls not worth paying tuppence for, get another kind.  Karma is not quite the right word, but...

And on your last point, you've done more shoots than me, I'm in dozens or scores. The calibre of people who have modelled for me is better than calibre of people I meet elsewhere in life. 

And for full disclosure, my one no show was total disorganization on the model's part for which she was ultra apologetic, and offered to pay my travel costs. Pre PP, I turned up at the studio 23 1/2 hours late for a shoot for similar reasons, and totalled my car on the morning of another shoot. (Paid the model, studio wouldn't take my money). 

CalmNudes said

Orson Carter said

CalmNudes said

Total no shows ... 1 which was 8 or 9 years ago. Late cancellations 0.  Models I'd advise others to avoid 0. Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to... a very small handful. 

About 900 shoots in 15 years. 

Total no-shows - 1.

I got fed up with waiting for the model to arrive and I went home (model apparently eventually showed up, but too long after the agreed shoot time) - 2.

Late-ish cancellations - a few.

Models I'd advise others to avoid - can't think of any real duffers.

Models I'd only give a lukewarm recommendation to - a very small handful.

Models who turned up on time and were brilliant to work with - hundreds.   

 

  

Edited by Orson Carter

Seeing that and Huw 's comment,  it's almost as if people who seek out professional models, expect them to be professional and treat them like professionals get one kind of model, and people who think they are silly girls not worth paying tuppence for, get another kind.  Karma is not quite the right word, but...

And on your last point, you've done more shoots than me, I'm in dozens or scores. The calibre of people who have modelled for me is better than calibre of people I meet elsewhere in life. 

And for full disclosure, my one no show was total disorganization on the model's part for which she was ultra apologetic, and offered to pay my travel costs. Pre PP, I turned up at the studio 23 1/2 hours late for a shoot for similar reasons, and totalled my car on the morning of another shoot. (Paid the model, studio wouldn't take my money). 

Successful models are mostly bright as hell, well organised, and pleasant to work with.

JamesMt142 said

Problem is the system is set up for the models to hold all the cards.

The one with anxiety I've worked with twice before, we have a great relationship. So I'm confident I've not done anything.

I've had pros pull the same trick though. One rang me, an hour before call time, to say she was on her period and couldn't shoot some stuff. OK, fine. Then she sent a series of texts trying to find a way out. So I called her, offered ways around the issue (I grew up with two teenage sisters so I do get it) and it was obvious she wanted an out.

She then text me later having a go at me for being pushy. A few days later I apologised and she apologised back, understanding that I was trying to salvage the day but she's avoided shooting with me for several months.

Seriously regret not DNSing her otherwise clean sheet.

If you felt that the model didn't want to do the shoot, why on earth did you persist in trying to make the shoot happen? What would be the point of working with a model who didn't want to be there?  Hardly the recipe for a productive shoot. 

Orson Carter it wasn't obvious she was looking for an out at first. Hands up that was a failure to read the room on my part.

JamesMt142 the system is not set up for models , it's for everyone. Yes models are the likely A side but everyone can make the site work for them.