Late cancellations

I don't usually have that much invested in a booking, I don't use studios so my only loss is time and travel, I usually have a plan B, so I would just take it on the chin. For me, being late canceled, or no-showed, is rare. Probably tempting fate! :D 
If a model has a late cancellation policy, I state that this must go both ways, should they cancel.
If you only have a username with no other details, it is probably at best very difficult to pursue any compensation, anyway. 

CalmNudes said

...TBH most successful models I've met would be successful at whatever they turned their hands to. I thought that about Joceline when I first worked with her 20 or so years ago...

'...the most successful models...' Definitely. A positive 'can do' attitude, and a realisation that the world is not there solely for their benefit. Excellent traits that will serve anyone well in most walks of life. 

Joceline Brooke-Hamilton - Agreed. She was the first 'big name' I worked with about 14 or 15 years ago. A superb model and one of the loveliest people you could ever meet. I learned a helluva lot from her. 

Edited by Orson Carter

OK cards on the table here.

From the fact I don't have the money to pay superstar rates, I also can't afford to risk that level of money on someone who might turn out to be difficult.

I don't particularly trust the reference system; just because someone who gets on with others doesn't mean we're going to get on. I've hired "published" models who've been on the likes of Met Art and Only (the hosiery fetish group of sites, not the fans one) who were impossible to work with, and I was left feeling like I'd wasted my cash and time.

For me, I feel personality is first and ability is a close second. People have said plenty about their perception of me even though if you get to know me, it's simply not the case. Likewise, I'm put off models because they emanate a perception that they'd be awkward or difficult to work with.

CalmNudes I've blocked him because of this thread. I never have come across him before but I know for sure I would never want to have the displeasure of working with him.

Chris Green that's very well put,next time such a conversation arises in real life I am going to quote you.

Orson Carter said

CalmNudes said

...TBH most successful models I've met would be successful at whatever they turned their hands to. I thought that about Joceline when I first worked with her 20 or so years ago...

'...the most successful models...' Definitely. A positive 'can do' attitude, and a realisation that the world is not there solely for their benefit. Excellent traits that will serve anyone well in most walks of life. 

Joceline Brooke-Hamilton - Agreed. She was the first 'big name' I worked with about 14 or 15 years ago. A superb model and one of the loveliest people you could ever meet. I learned a helluva lot from her. 

Edited by Orson Carter

Totally agree about Joceline. I didn't realise how early in her career I first worked with her until much later, and it was quite early in mine, but the world "lovely" sums her up (made we want to unsee some of the stuff she does as Ariel but that's another matter) and very much the pro's pro, who could do anything. No surprise she's had people queuing up to work with her ever since. And one of most usable bits of advice I've ever had - if encroaching into a models space is absolutely unavoidable, say what you are about to do first so it isn't a surprise and the model can say "don't" or whatever - came from her.  

But I've worked in more than one place were we could sack half the staff, replace them with models I know and the place would work far better.  

Chris Green said

If you hire a lawyer, accountant, financial adviser, plumber, electrician, gardener or builder, you don't expect them to compensate you if they don't turn up.  So you mitiagte the risk by seeking references, Googling them in advance, seeing if they're full or part-time, keeping in contact with them prior to the appointment and having a contingency plan in case they don't turn up.  In practice, you wouldn't expect any of these professionals to pay you direct or consequential losses if they don't turn up (or if they turn up but don't perform well on the day).  It's annoying but, in reality, I don't think there's much you can do about it.

umm...incorrect that's why lawyers, accounts and financial advisers all have professional indemnity insurance because the consequences can be financially catastrophic if they get it wrong.  Personally I think it's particularly foolish to compare practices that take place in professional industries with hobbyist modelling.  They are worlds apart.

What are the chances of a model paying a photographer for failure to turn up pretty much zero!  

JamesMt142 you don't need to pay 'superstar rates' for reliability/professionalism/good communication. You don't need to pay anything for that because plenty of TFP models are still professional in their approach. The initial first messages setting up the shoot often dictate how things go afterwards in my experience.

A lot of my work is TFP and I've only ever cancelled when I've needed to. Once was because of an illness flare up (which I couldn't have predicted), and once was weather related (outside location in gale force winds isn't my cup of tea). However, I communicated my reasonings and the photographers were more than understanding and happy to rearrange.

I don't think there is a one size fits all solution for the issue of late cancellations and people will have to deal with it how they see fit. Whether it's leaving a negative reference or just saying "I'll never work with them again".

JamesMt142 said

OK cards on the table here.

From the fact I don't have the money to pay superstar rates, I also can't afford to risk that level of money on someone who might turn out to be difficult.

I don't particularly trust the reference system; just because someone who gets on with others doesn't mean we're going to get on. I've hired "published" models who've been on the likes of Met Art and Only (the hosiery fetish group of sites, not the fans one) who were impossible to work with, and I was left feeling like I'd wasted my cash and time.

For me, I feel personality is first and ability is a close second. People have said plenty about their perception of me even though if you get to know me, it's simply not the case. Likewise, I'm put off models because they emanate a perception that they'd be awkward or difficult to work with.

Well I'll put my cards on the table too. I've found that the best models on PP only charge slightly more than mediocre ones. I'm "time poor", I just had my first holiday in 2 1/2 years and realised that in the time since I have only taken a whole day to do something I want to do on 3 occasions.  I can spare the time to work with second raters, and if a model were to no show I'd be more bothered by the lost time than the lost money. A lot of people who say 'I don't have the money to spend on models' are actually saying "I prefer to spend my money on something else - by the time I've spent this on such and such a bit of discretionary spending - holidays, clothes, TV subscriptions, meals out, camera gear there isn't anything left for models" I see people who earn less than I do who spend on shoes in in year what I've spent in the last five... What can I say? I tell people to work with the best people they possibly can; do a day job were you work with crap people, you'll feel bad about yourself and the job, work among great people and you'll feel better (once you get over the imposter syndrome). The better the models I work with, the better photographer I seem to be;  I pick from the top of the barrel and get a great experience - other people choose from the bottom of barrel and don't, so pick higher up the barrel even if that means fewer shoots.  

The reference system on PP, might have a lot of waffle about how when photographer X got on with model Y, but it does show "has shown up on time and had her shit together 300 times in a row, for people broadly like me".  or "has turned up (or paid) 100 times in a row, and hasn't groped a model so far"  I think we all try and form a view of "easy to work with" /"might be on the demanding side" before even looking at references - which is why some models lurk in the groups and don't say what they think for fear of being judged "difficult". Photographers don't seem to care. I think a slice of people think I'm an arse when I'm behind a keyboard, and I manage to live with it.

But the things you've said on this thread aren't endearing you to models, according to at least one post here and a couple more in my inbox. 

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CalmNudes that is fair. I'm not your biggest fan, based on you sitting behind a keyboard, but I think you know that already.

Nevertheless, what you've said there is fair And on reflection I might have gone too far.

What I will say is I have had people very happy to work with me and me them. What you say about "Imposter syndrome" is also pretty fair. I would feel intimidated asking a superstar/internationally published model to come and work in front of my fairly low-rent gear, because I've had a couple of bad experiences.

But it's very easy to form perceptions. A hundred times harder to shake them. There's plenty of people who do enjoy working with me and me them, but Becca's made up her mind based on my comments here. I could easily find a number of models who could tell her she's got me all wrong, but it wouldn't change anything now.

Simon Christopher said

Can anyone suggest ideas how photographers can be compensated for late cancellations by models.

If a photographer cancels with 1 week, 72 hours notice etc models can request either a part or full modelling fee. This is even with serious illness I can accept as they’ve a claim for lost earnings.

However, I’ve had models cancel on the day leaving me with having to pay for hire of studio, location hire and there’s nothing I can do.

Any suggestions will be helpful.

Choose your models wisely (too many photographers allow their enthusiasm to supplant common sense) and don't commit to costs you can't afford to write off if your track record when choosing models isn't sound.

Edited by FiL

JamesMt142 "I would feel intimidated asking a superstar/internationally published model to come and work in front of my fairly low-rent gear, because I've had a couple of bad experiences."

I feel gear shouldn't be an issue if you have good/interesting creative intent.

I read some of your points when you come up James and to a certain extent I see where you're coming from. But as an anti Tory Guardian fanboy I often feel it's about some of the things you place along side the main point...

Afrofilmviewer again, that's fair. Yes I voted Leave. Yes I vote Tory. Yes my opinion of the Guardian is analogus to ones some sections of society hold about The Sun or the Mail. No I don't believe in Labour, or Socialism.

But none of that means I'm a horrible person.